Steelers Lounge 2011 NFL Draft Discussion Thread, Day 3

Use this thread to talk about and keep up with  – you guessed it — the 2011 NFL Draft. If you missed it, you can read through the Day 1 and Day 2 threads, and while you’re at it, might as well meet the new Steelers, too: Cameron Heyward, Marcus Gilbert, and Curtis Brown.

Links you should click:

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Players the Steelers Should Target on Day 3
Steelers Lounge Steelers Mock Draft, Version 6
Steelers’ 7-Round 2011 Draft Value Board
Yahoo’s Doug Farrar Talks NFL Draft
Steelers Pre-Draft Player Visits

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Extra credit…

Other links you should click:

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Steelers Lounge Steelers Mock Draft, Version 5
Steelers Lounge Steelers Mock Draft, Version 4
Steelers Lounge Steelers Mock Draft, Version 3
Steelers Lounge Steelers Mock Draft, Version 2
Steelers Lounge Steelers Mock Draft, Version 1

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  • Ted

    FYI Everybody, I am going to try to post our possibilities and a projection 4-5 picks before we select for each round all day. It will be under the “On the Clock” segments for each round, so please reload the front page.

    • Randy Steele

      Thank you for all your hard work, Mr. Kian. It’s appreciated.

  • Aaron

    I wonder if we will try to pick up a safety in one of the next 2 rounds? Certainly seems like there could be a roster spot there . . .

  • Canadian Steeler

    Wow. K Henery goes in the fourth to the Eagles, wouldn’t have minded him in the 6th, but this would’ve been too early for me. This probably means Akers is gone, and I wouldn’t mind us taking a run at him.

    • http://www.steelerslounge.com/ ryan

      Ha. Exactly. That was my first thought: “Well, the Steelers can sign Akers now.”

  • Ted

    Just posted round possibilities with 5 picks to go. Loads of good options still on the board now. I am elated. http://www.steelerslounge.com/2011/04/clock-steelers-fourthround-projection/#more-5144

  • Anonymous

    The Raiders got Checkwa
    5 picks to go and Cannon, House, Burton available.

    • Railbenderale

      Janoris Jenkins, shutdown corner, just kicked off team in Florida. Couple of arrests for marijuana possession. Need to get this guy as free agent. Really worth the risk. Think Tomlin and steelers could straighten his head around. Potential all pro.

  • Anonymous

    Oh my. I like Allen, but not in the 4th. That’s quite a reach.

  • Anonymous

    Oh my. I like Allen, but not in the 4th. That’s quite a reach.

  • http://www.steelerslounge.com/ ryan

    Intropy,

    Not sure if it’s a reach. I mean, it’s a reach to us, based on what we were told by the media leading up to the draft, but I’m guessing none of us watched much Citadel football during the year. Anyway, DB coach Carnell Lake just described Cortez Allen as “pretty quick, pretty fast, can play both bump & off coverage, lot of upside” (via Ken Laird). Laird also tweeted: “Lake says he feels the team has a real steal here, a guy with limited experience, like his vision & versatility for their zone schemes.”

    And as I write this the Packers take Davon House, a guy I liked. But Mayock and Butch Davis are talking about House’s flaws — squatting in coverage — and if he doesn’t fix that his NFL career will be about getting burned a lot.

    • Anonymous

      100% agree with you on the whole peanut gallery thing. To me a reach isn’t a player who doesn’t have sufficient talent to be drafted where he’s drafted. A reach is drafting a player well ahead of where you could have drafted him. Based on the media reports and videos and all I think he could have been drafted later, making it a reach. Of course it’s quite likely the Steelers have better data on what other teams would have chosen when. Their track record of value selections is certainly evidence of that likelihood.

      • http://www.steelerslounge.com/ ryan

        That’s a fair point, re: when a team decides to take a player, and an important distinction to what I wrote above.

  • Ted

    The Allen pick is intriguing. I liked him, but in the fifth round. He was on my board I posted this morning. However, guys with his size and speed at corner rarely last that far, especially since there had been a run on CBs in the fourth round. If we had not taken Brown in the third, we could not afford to take a pure developmental, down-the-road corner like Allen in the fourth round, and that’s what he is. He is a boom/bust type with high upside.

    You are talking about a guy who only played one year of HS football, ends up at the Citaldel and takes a good while to even start there. But he came on late, is obviously disciplined, and has the physical potential to be a starting NFL cornerback, which not many late fourth-round CBs taken do.

    What this also tells me is that Keenan Lewis will have a very difficult time making the roster next season. Assuming Ike is resigned and Gay returns for sure because he is not an UFA or because no other team shows any interest if he is, my guess is we go into camp thinking:

    1. Ike
    2. BMac
    3. Gay
    4. Brown (also the gunner, taking Madison’s dress role)

    and then essentially three guys battling for a max of two roster spots in Butler, Allen and Lewis.

    Butler, who looked really good last year in the preseason as a rookie, has the upper-hand, because of his potential as a nickleback. Allen will get a lot of slack as a rookie, although we have a penchant for cutting fourth-round picks before the season or shortly thereafter (Fred Gibson, Harris, McBean, Thad Gibson) in recent years. Still, those guys were all from big-time schools and more was expected of them as rookies than will be of Allen.

    I like taking Allen in the fourth round more than taking Lewis in the third two years ago. That was a serious reach and his poor hips made me think he would never make it. In contrast, Allen is a fluid, although he is just much more raw. We were able to do this thanks to taking Brown in the third. If we took another position there, then there was no way we could take a long-term, developmental CB.

    Once Taiwan Jones went off the board, there was no one player I was saying we have to take and we will still be able to fill other needs in the fifth and sixth rounds.

  • Anonymous

    Damn. The Pats just got Marcus Cannon.

    • Ted

      Sux. Not mad about Allen, but would have rather had Cannon if we are going to take a risk. Imagine him at RG in 2012. Only thing good is he doesn’t really fit their finesse offense.

  • Anonymous

    Aside from from Curtis Brown, about whom I’ve heard nothing one way or the other, every player the Steelers have chosen has been noted for being high-character and hard-working.

    • http://www.steelerslounge.com/ ryan

      Juxtapose that to the Ravens, a media-created high-character bunch, taking Jimmy Smith and letting him learn from the great Ray-Ray. Makes sense.

  • Anonymous

    Aside from from Curtis Brown, about whom I’ve heard nothing one way or the other, every player the Steelers have chosen has been noted for being high-character and hard-working.

  • http://www.google.com/profiles/100857546184516732260 Dr Obvious

    Am I the only one that thinks Allen is a classic CB to Safety switch if he doesn’t work out at CB?

  • http://www.google.com/profiles/100857546184516732260 Dr Obvious

    Am I the only one that thinks Allen is a classic CB to Safety switch if he doesn’t work out at CB?

  • http://www.google.com/profiles/100857546184516732260 Dr Obvious

    Am I the only one that thinks Allen is a classic CB to Safety switch if he doesn’t work out at CB?

  • http://www.google.com/profiles/100857546184516732260 Dr Obvious

    Am I the only one that thinks Allen is a classic CB to Safety switch if he doesn’t work out at CB?

  • EasyLikeSundayMorning

    My monkey mock had in r1-4 Heyward, an OT, Brown, a CB. I can’t be right on the players in r5, as both of the WRs I guessed were taken in r3.

  • EasyLikeSundayMorning

    Philly took Dion Lewis. I guess they are trying to repeat their success with a Pitt RB with McCoy. I had mocked / hoped Lewiw would fall to us in r6.

  • Anonymous

    Okay we’re close enough in 5 for me to start thinking about BPA who fit:
    Quan Sturdivant
    Jerrell Powe
    Virgil Green
    Lee Ziemba

  • http://www.steelerslounge.com/ ryan

    Via Wex at SCI.com:

    “Lake believes the rigors and discipline required of Citadel cadets cost Allen time on the football field, but Allen said ‘I don’t think it hurt me at all. If anything, it’s made me a better person for managing all of that.’

    Allen moved into The Citadel’s starting lineup midway through his sophomore season. He manned the run-oriented ‘boundary’ corner for the next 2½ seasons and allowed only 35 percent of passes targeted to his receiver to be caught. The team captain had five career interceptions.”

  • Ted

    Just posted fifth-round possibilities, although at this point most anyone’s guess is as good as Mel Kiper’s:

    http://www.steelerslounge.com/2011/04/clock-steelers-fifthround-projection/

    Still lots of good players left, although I hated seeing Rodgers go in the 5th to the Falcons. I wanted a poor man’s Ray Rice.

  • EasyLikeSundayMorning

    Chris Carter, OLB Fresno State. Too bad injuries forced us to cut Thad Gibson or we could have used this pick for other reasons. Oh, and the monkey wiffed on this round.

    • Anonymous

      Good value pick. Not immediate need, but our starters aren’t getting any younger. They have a knack at scouting linebackers so this could work out. I wonder if they see him competing with Worilds, being a backup, or moving inside.

      • EasyLikeSundayMorning

        Competition at WR seemed to help Sanders and Brown.

      • Ted

        Intropy, we have a knack for taking tons of OLBs and some work out real well (Lloyd, Gildon, Porter, Woodley, etc.) and some obviously do not (Alonzo Jackson, Bruce Davis, Steven Conley), with the jury still out on Worilds.

        Really, though, since we went 3-4 when Cowher came in, name me a bad starting OLB for a full season that we had. You can’t. Carlos Emmons was average, with the rest good to great. Yes, some of that is great scouting and coaching, but more of it is the system. Our system is designed for guys to flourish as 3-4 OLBs. Harrison and especially Woodley would not be as good for other teams.

        • Canadian Steeler

          Not sure if this gets lost in here, but I heard on a podcast (think it was ESPN Football Today) how much of a difference Aaron Smith makes to our linebackers performance. It certainly makes sense when you think about Woodley’s struggles when Hood first replaced Smith (though as Hood improved, Woodley’s play certainly did too). Now Woodley’s success is not obviously completely dependent on Aaron Smith’s health, as he’s obviously a freak, but it’s interesting especially when both he and Clark Haggans had some relatively similar success as superior players (IMO) in Deebo and Porter.

          Anyways, it’s no secret that our defensive line frees up the space for our linebackers to make plays, so this is pretty much just a long way of saying how much I’m growing on the Heyward pick. Being able to (hopefully) fill that defensive end position for the next 5-10 years is absolutely pivotal in the success of players like Worilds and Carter.

          Pressure’s key to LeBeau (and I’m assuming Keith Butler’s) system, and quality defensive line play seems just as important as the actual rushers.

  • EasyLikeSundayMorning

    Dilfer went to Fresno State and was glowing about Carter, saying, “Some teams just get it. Carter will have a huge impact at some point, maybe not immediately but he will.” He also looks like a beast on the short clips they showed of him.

  • Ted

    Carter was a good-value pick here in a horrible draft for OLBs. I had him going in the 4th round, possibly earlier, in all my pre-mocks and knew we could not use a first-4-round pick on a No. 8 LB this year after using three top-5 picks on LBs last year. However, I had us going LB twice in mocks in the fifth round (Bruce Miller and Lutrus) and Carter is a better prospect than those guys.

    Taking Worilds in the 2nd and Gibson in the 4th last year was absurd. But now we actually have one open OLB spot, because we were forced to cut Gibson to keep Smith on the roster all year (even though most outside experts thought he could not play and they were right) and because we will almost certainly now let Fox go.

    Would have liked to have taken a TE, RB or an OL here, but Carter is a more sure bet to make the roster than anyone at those spots would have been in the fifth round, and is as good a value here as the top remaining players at those spots.

  • http://www.steelerslounge.com/ ryan

    Just posted a fancy video, and more importantly, Mayock’s comments on Chris Carter here.

  • EasyLikeSundayMorning

    ESPN just did a segment on hugging the commish. At the end, Herm, Jaws and Bruschi gave Suzy Kolber a group hug. Somewhere, Namath did a spit take with his scotch.

  • Ted

    Wondering if something is up with Virgil Green (rumors, negative stuff, etc.) that we have not heard about. He is the No. 77 overall prospect via ESPN and was projected as a third-rounder by most in a thin year for TE prospects. Granted he is not seen as an every-down TE, but so are others rated lower who have already gone.

  • Ted

    Wondering if something is up with Virgil Green (rumors, negative stuff, etc.) that we have not heard about. He is the No. 77 overall prospect via ESPN and was projected as a third-rounder by most in a thin year for TE prospects. Granted he is not seen as an every-down TE, but so are others rated lower who have already gone.

  • Ted

    Draft is getting very exciting now, but unfortunately the talking heads on TV are interviewing too many coaches and talking about first-rounder instead of focusing on players being taken, who can help teams win titles. We have had some pretty good success in round 6 over the years and would not have been in the Super Bowl without Antonio Brown last year.

    Crapshoot at this point, but here are my possibilities, best guesses at this point for our upcoming sixth-round pick: http://www.steelerslounge.com/2011/04/clock-steelers-sixthround-projection/

    God I miss the weekdays of 12-round drafts, which would usually be the only day of school I missed all year in middle school.

  • Ted

    Draft is getting very exciting now, but unfortunately the talking heads on TV are interviewing too many coaches and talking about first-rounder instead of focusing on players being taken, who can help teams win titles. We have had some pretty good success in round 6 over the years and would not have been in the Super Bowl without Antonio Brown last year.

    Crapshoot at this point, but here are my possibilities, best guesses at this point for our upcoming sixth-round pick: http://www.steelerslounge.com/2011/04/clock-steelers-sixthround-projection/

    God I miss the weekdays of 12-round drafts, which would usually be the only day of school I missed all year in middle school.

    • Randy Steele

      Bit of an odd duck, aren’t you, Mr. Kian?

      • Ted

        Age is a psychological state and not chronological. Believe you are young and you always be. But as George Carlin, there are plenty of “old farts” in their 20s. That said, I am starting to feel old when it comes to this. As JJ said the other day, he remembered watching Ironhead play and now we drafted his son. I remember Ironhead at Pitt like it was yesterday.

      • Ted

        Age is a psychological state and not chronological. Believe you are young and you always be. But as George Carlin, there are plenty of “old farts” in their 20s. That said, I am starting to feel old when it comes to this. As JJ said the other day, he remembered watching Ironhead play and now we drafted his son. I remember Ironhead at Pitt like it was yesterday.

  • Ted

    Mayock just said he recently got word that V. Green was taken off some teams’ board due to medical concerns (microfracture) even though he had a great combine. He also just got drafted by Broncos. Finally.

  • ROb D

    Well..thats just about it. Seems we had a decent draft overall but the proof is always in the pudding. For the record, I hate the 3 day draft. Not nearly the event for me it used to be. Thanks for all your work guys, I am sure its exhausting and very time consuming to get to know all these football prospects.

  • Ted

    Was not real excited about the Williams pick. It was around where he was supposed to go and he was a productive 2-year starter at Nebraska, so it was not a bad pick However, he has limited athleticism, upside or versatility, and may have to battle Chris Scott for a roster spot. Plus, do we need any more athletically-limited guards?

  • ROb D

    Schefter says 23 undrafted free agents started in last year’s Pro Bowl.

    Kind of let’s you know that good..even great.players can be found outside the draft or even UDFA.

  • Ted

    Just made the ultimate guesses in seventh-round possibilities six picks before we are up:
    http://www.steelerslounge.com/2011/04/clock-steelers-seventhround-projection/

  • Railbenderale

    Need to get Janoris Jenkins. Just kicked off team for a couple of marijuana possession offenses. Probably leaving school. This guy is a shutdown corner and future potential all pro. I think Tomlin and Steelers could straighten this guys act uo, if anybody could. Somebody is going to give this guy a chance and I hope it is the Steelers. No evidence that this guy is selling marijuana or that he is into hard drugs.